Reply to a Comment from "Titch"

Here is my reply to a comment from Titch. He had the goodness to actually include his name and location in the post, which I appreciate because it says to me that here is someone who is willing to engage in a real dialog and not cower behind anonymity.

Titch: im 18years old and happy to say ive read everything i can get my hands on to do with scientology. Could you tell me which Scientology books you've read?

Titch: i believe we all look for answers to do with the universe and the meaning of life and so forth. but i cant help but think scientology isnt the answer. i do not wish to harm your faith or your beliefs but a man has a right to free speech in this world.

grahame: I have no problem with that. The right to believe as one decides for himself is a basic human right. (Human Right #18: Freedom of thought)

Titch then went on to relate a story that anti-Scientologists claim is the basis of Scientology.

grahame: That is not the basis of Scientology. Actual Scientology is what you read in the Basic Scientology Books. But even if that story were the basis of Scientology then we are just as entitled to believe it as you are to disbelieve it. Human Rights are a two way street. If you allow a right to others then you also get that right yourself. Take a right away from others and you lose it too.

Titch: i do not wish to harm your faith, or your beliefs. but i do not agree with your "religion" forcing scientology on everyone else. a man must make up his own mind about how he lives, and he must change in ways himself, not be indoctrinated into doing something because one of your fellow scientologist says so.

grahame: At this point I would make a guess that when you said "everything i can get my hands on to do with scientology", you didn't mean actual data on Scientology or what Scientologists do in the world (e.g., human rights, drug abuse, illiteracy, disaster relief) but that you have been reading anti-Scientology propaganda that accuses the Church and its members of all sorts of outrageous things. If you had read actual Scientology, then you'd know that it is not something you can "force" onto anyone and I personally don't know any Scientologist who would ever think of doing such a thing. Look at the bloodshed and suffering caused in the last couple of thousand years by people trying to force their beliefs onto others. Every person must make up his or her own mind when it comes to religion. There is a quote in this blog post, Scientology - What got me interested, from L. Ron Hubbard which says what the Scientology attitude is about forcing beliefs onto someone. Please take a look at it.

Titch: i also dont agree with the fact that as a religion you make people spend money to help themselves and become part of your community

grahame: Once again Titch, you have not been reading facts about Scientology. Please look at the posts on my site relating to the cost of Scientology. This should cover them: Scientology Donations, Why do you have to pay for Scientology?, Question about cost of Advanced Levels in Scientology, Questions regarding the cost of Scientology. And just to address what you said specifically: no one is "made" to spend money to help themselves or become Scientologists. If anyone told you this then you have been misinformed.

Titch: i will understand if you do not wish to approve my comment, but i wish people to know that all things in life has a choice and that covering up peoples right to free speech and indoctrinating them into your society is wrong, if people wish to join you, i say let them, but not by cohertion but by choice, and let it be free.

grahame: I absolutely agree with you. Something you have probably not read about Scientology in the places you've been looking, is that a person is not allowed to take part in Scientology services unless they are doing it under their own determinism. It's something that gets checked every time you start any course or counseling in Scientology. If you are there because someone made you then you can't do the service. You have to make up your own mind and decide you want to do it yourself.

Free speech is also looked upon as very important in Scientology. The right to free speech is actually part of the Creed of the Church of Scientology. If you have been told that Scientologists are somehow against free speech then you have been misinformed.

Thanks a lot for your questions. I do appreciate them. If you (or anyone else) have more questions then feel free to post them. See the link at the top of this page.

Scientology Donations

Burkhard asked where the money paid for donations goes.

My answer:
-- It goes to paying for the Church you are at to be there - mortgage, utilities, etc.
-- It goes to paying the people who work at your local Church.
-- It goes to disseminating Scientology.
-- It goes to printing and publishing Scientology books.
-- It goes to managing Scientology Churches world wide.
-- It goes to expanding Scientology.

I think that about covers it.

More information:
How are Churches of Scientology Supported?
How are Churches of Scientology supported financially?

Do you still beat your wife?

A person who opposes Scientology (JB) asked some rather loaded questions. That is, questions of the "do you still beat your wife?" type, so however you answer you're guilty.

However, I'd like to at least address what he brought up.

Firstly, there is the question of people claiming to somehow be giving away Scientology for free while the Church "charges" for it. This is answered partly by my earlier post "Answers to Questions regarding the cost of Scientology Services " and partly in the comments section of my post "Questions About Scientology". Those cover a lot of the false data on cost of services.

On the idea that one can obtain Scientology services for free outside the Church, that is also answered in my "Answers to Questions regarding the cost of Scientology Services " article, but to put it briefly, in order to get the benefits of Scientology Auditing the technology must be applied exactly and that takes tough professional training and a team to ensure the quality stays at the level of perfection. It simply can't be done for nothing. Here are some other references regarding people who claim to deliver Scientology outside of the church: What are Freezoners? and Squirrels. My last comment on this is that these people don't deliver Scientology. It's like my example in an earlier post where I talked about going to someone who'd read a book on kidney surgery but wasn't a fully trained and certified surgeon, you just wouldn't do it unless you were nuts.

The last thing JB did was ask me to address "the record of violence that the Church of Scientology has" - as I said it's one of those "do you still beat your wife?' type of questions. It is also a huge generality of the "Muslims are all terrorists" or "Mormons are polygamists" variety. I wondered what sort of person would ask a question like that? So I took a look at his blog and he has this huge list of names of people who have supposedly been killed by the church. Wow! Isn't it great the way you can simply accuse people of something without any proof and immediately they are found guilty. So hey JB, let's think this one through logically. Now, last time I looked, if someone died under suspicious circumstances an organization known as the "police" (you may have heard of them) investigated and if they found someone was responsible for the death then the responsible party was prosecuted and if found guilty they were sent to jail. I think that is still the way they do things, at least in the USA. So according to you, JB, the police have been taking a lot of time off recently or else they have simply been ignoring multiple homicides. Are you accusing them of siting around eating donuts when they should be out keeping the streets safe from roving bands of homicidal Scientologists???

Sorry if I sound sarcastic but come on. Get real. You have been wildly misled. Instead of blindly attacking Scientology why don't you go into your local Church and actually talk to a live person so you can see what sort of people Scientologists are? You could get your questions answered. You could get factual data about whatever accusations you've heard. You could find out the truth about the false data you've been fed. For goodness sake, man, open your eyes and find out for yourself. Stop blindly accepting what you are being spoon fed by a group of anti-religious bigots.

References:
Church of Scientology Community Outreach And Assistance Programs
Scientology In Society
Scientology Volunteer Ministers

Answers to Questions regarding the cost of Scientology Services

chakurakid15 said:

He's not saying he wants to get a degree in Theology. He's asking why does it cost you money to be IN the church. Christianity does not REQUIRE you to donate money to be in it or make you take classes so you can be saved ...

What he and I are curious about is why do you have to pay for classes to learn more about your religion? I've been in christianity for 13 years, and other then an occasional new bible when mine wears out, I've never been again REQUIRED to pay a cent to learn more about my religion or to get help. Why is it that Scientology does? I don't understand that. I'm not trying to be rude, but that seems a little ridiculous to me. If you could explain that, maybe I could understand a little better where you're coming from.


My response:
Thanks for your questions. I'll do my best to answer them.

The Church of Scientology does NOT REQUIRE you to pay anything to be a Scientologist.

Let's compare what a person (Mr. C) might do if he wants to be a Christian but doesn't want to spend any money and what a person (Mr. S) might do under the same circumstances if he wanted to be a Scientologist.

Mr. C can go to his local public library and get out a Bible.
Mr. S can go to his local public library and get out a Scientology book.

Mr. C can go to his local Christian church to attend a Sunday Service at no charge.
Mr. S can go to his local Scientology church to attend a Sunday Service at no charge.

Mr. C can go to his local Christian church to attend other free services.
Mr. S can go to his local Scientology church to attend other free services.

So far there is no difference and no requirement to pay anything.

The big difference comes when we start talking about the spiritual technology of Scientology, what we in Scientology call "Auditing". There really is no equivalent that I know of in other religions. It is very difficult to describe what I'm talking about without going into tremendous detail, but I'll try to give you the "Reader's Digest" version.

Through Scientology Auditing you can achieve the following abilities:
- Willing to communicate freely with anyone on any subject. Free from or no longer bothered by communication difficulties. No longer withdrawn or reticent.
- Able to recognize the source of problems and make them vanish. No longer worried about problems he has with others, problems they have with him, problems others have with others or problems he has with himself. Can recognize the source of problems.
- Freedom from the hostilities and sufferings of life.
- Freedom from upsets of the past. Ability to face the future. Ability to experience sudden change without becoming upset.
- Ability to move out of fixed conditions and able to do new things. Able to face life without the need to justify his own actions or defend himself from others.
(These are just a few from the full list.)

When you gain these abilities you know it for yourself, no one tells you that you have them. You tell the Auditor (counselor) when you are satisfied you've reached the ability.

To give a person these abilities requires an exactly applied technology. It takes a great deal of work to teach a person how to give these abilities to another. It is not something you can do by simply reading some books. It's sort of like kidney surgery, you can read all the books you like on it but nobody in their right mind is going to let you operate on them. While not quite so life threatening, the technology of Scientology has to be applied exactly and with an accompanying discipline for it to work.

Thus it takes time and resources to do it. It takes Scientology Training. So if a person wants to be certified as a professional Scientology Auditor he will need to go to a properly certified Church which has highly trained professional staff who will make sure he comes out of that training as a professional. Naturally this sort of training costs money.

On the other side is receiving the Auditing so you can achieve the abilities such as those listed above. Delivery of this technology takes a highly trained professional team to do it. It takes time, resources and highly personalized attention. Again this costs money.

I hope that answers your questions about money.

One other thing. There is a word "Thetan" that we use in Scientology. it is a much mis-defined term. The word means "soul", but soul has so many other meanings that we use the term thetan instead, from the Greek letter "theta", the traditional symbol for thought or life. One does not have a thetan, something one keeps somewhere apart from oneself; one is a thetan. The thetan is the person himself, not his body or his name or the physical universe, his mind or anything else. It is that which is aware of being aware; the identity which IS the individual.

What Scientology Auditing (spiritual technology) addresses is you, the thetan and not anything else.

References:
A Description of Auditing
A Description Of Scientology Training
What is auditing?
What is a thetan?
What is training?
Does it cost a lot to be a member of the Church and take services?
Chaplain And Ministerial Services
Dianetics, Scientology & Beyond By L. Ron Hubbard
Auditing to Higher States of Existence